Laid ufh over kingspan and screed larfarge gyvlon to. The tile cracks didnt orignate by these spots though. Schluter ditra membranes provide uncoupling through free space, which allows for inplane movement that effectively neutralizes the differential movement stresses between the substrate and the tile, thus eliminating the major cause of cracking and delaminating of the tiled surface. Exterior concrete floors, patios, and walkways ditra drain may be used over structurally sound and even exterior concrete on ground, including young concrete concrete cured less than 28 days, posttensioned or prestressed concrete, and cracked concrete. In addition, it allowed the normal live load forces exerted on the tile surface to be widely. Ditra over cement backer board archive ceramic tile. If you happen to have schluter ditra as your substrate, this post will tell you why either one of the above may be happening. Laying schluter ditra uncoupling membrane over a concrete substrate. Concrete is subject to lengthy deformation processes due to shrinkage. Do uncoupling membranes prevent cracked tile floors. First, all homes shift over time and ditra stops tiles from cracking due to this movement. How uncoupling membranes like schluter ditra, laticrete stratamat, and custom redgard uncoupling membrane work and their advantages over cement board.
However, after reading more, i feel like people have stated that if there is cement board down, i shouldnt add ditra on top of that. Hi, wondered if you good folks could advise on whether ditra mat is advisableessential for my upcoming tiling. Ditra is waterproof, while cement board lets water through but wont be damaged by it. Jun 29, 2017 the schluter ditra uncoupling membrane is specifically designed to allow the installation of ceramic and stone tile over any even and load bearing substrate. When installing ditra how can you best ensure proper contact over concrete. The free space provides a route for excess moisture. Ditra is the right choice when installing flooring over concrete or other material that requires a moisture barrier to prevent damage to flooring. If your concrete is over 15 years old, it has had time. Fill the cutback cavities with schluter set, schluter allset, schluter fastset, or unmodified thinset mortar and comb additional mortar over the matting using a trowel that is appropriate for the size of the tile. Schluter ditradrain 2 due to the air space within the assembly, tile coverings installed over ditradrain may have a hollow sound when they are walked upon with hard shoes or tapped.
Learn the reason to use the schluter ditra underlayment product for tiled floors. There were a couple of spots on the edges 34 of the two tiles that didnt get complete coverage. Before you install an uncoupling membrane on a concrete subfloor, you must patch cracks and take steps to prevent the cracks from spreading. Ditra is also used over wood subfloors in place of mortar, cement backer boards and other tile underlayments. You know, products like ditra, stratamat, and redgard uncoupling.
Jan sale is now on the importance of using ditra or bal. An additional benefit of prefilling ditra mats is being able to snap chalk lines and actually being able to read them. When installed over any subfloor for tile such as osb, plywood, and concrete this powerful uncoupling mat creates a stable, waterproof tile underlayment that cant be matched by competitive products. Ditra heat tb has additional insulation for going over concrete floors. The safest way to approach questionable concrete is not to cover it over with cbus but to fix the concrete. Can you tile over control joints using an antifracture membrane. Ditra, as a decoupler, helps prevent substrate movement from damaging flooring. Ditra is installed over wood or concrete subfloors.
Remember, it cannot fix a crack if surfaces move up and down. Schluter ditra xl 516 underlayment 175sqft roll by schluter. There is a chance that the concrete can settle and crack, the movement of which will transfer to your tiles and cause them to crack. Schluter systems ditra membrane 10 square foot, 18 underlayment prevent crack. How to install tile over concrete greenbuildingadvisor. For some reason i felt that this was another step in protecting the overall job after reading how good it was. Ive seen a few other online putting crack isolation membrane over the floor, but it sounds like that is more for prevention, not for cracks that are already in the floor.
What type of thinset mortar should i use when installing schluter ditra. Use of schluter ditra over hydronic radiant heat jlc. Install ditra on a wood subfloor stop cracked tiles. Its a pressurestable polyethylene membrane with a grid. Also if one seam between two ditra mats has a gap of like 1. Schluterditra 25 has been developed specifically for uncoupling the building structure from the tiles.
The power module allows for a single point of control when the heating load exceeds 15 amp e. Use our ditra heat calculator to find out what products you need to complete your specific installation. We installed a 12 marble floor in two bathrooms which had cracks in the mortar bed using ditra. Although tile can be placed directly over a concrete slab, products such as schluters ditra are designed to separate, or uncouple, the tile from any potential movement in the substrate and protect the tile and grout from cracking. A seasoned floor that never sees moisture you could skip the ditra. This item schluter ditra xl membrane 10 square foot 5 16 underlayment prevent tile cracks. Cracks and curling forming in the screed over time will be. For example, to set ditra over plywood or osb, a modified thinset mortar meeting the requirements of ansi a118. So my question in short is should i return the ditra or use it over the cement backerboard. Cracks and gaps can be filled with portland cementbased fillers. Ditra is a decoupler, meaning in this case theres no chemical bond between the tile and the subfloor. Ditra is an excellent choice for use in any application where radiant heating is installed in the floor. Schluterditra 25 is a polyethylene mat with square, dovetailed recesses and an anchoring fleece laminated to the underside.
Also you dont have to worry about building the floor up too high. There is some old skim coat that buckled and will need to run some levelquick to solve that problem. What type of thinset mortar should i use when installing. If i find myself needing to tile over anything other than new, level concrete, ill probably go with ditra again. Heat causes materials to expand, and they shrink again when they cool.
Tile can be installed over ditra and ditra xl immediately. While ditra is my preferred membrane for floor tile installation as well as countertops and tub decks it absolutely needs to be installed correctly. Jan sale is now on the importance of using ditra or. A waterproof, vaporproof uncoupling membrane that can be used for crack suppression in most tile, porcelain or natural stone installations, and can be applied over challenging substrates such as. Ive self built and extension approx 50m2 which will be a kitchendiner with 2. Dont install tile the same day over the ditra heat mat.
Tiling floors using ditra from schluter systems tile. The coefficient for expansion and contraction is ten times greater in concrete than it is in tile. Triton dci mat tile underlayment is engineered to meet the challenge of keeping tiled floors intact and impeccable for the long haul. Uncoupling membrane installation on concrete and plywood. Schluter ditra 18 underlayment 323sqft carpet underlayments. Wood substrate thin slab lightweight or gypsum concrete concrete substrate structural concrete slab waterproofing 12 floors, interior ceramic or stone tile 14 exterior systems planning guide installation 22 schluterditra installation instructions product selection 24 choosing between schluterditra and ditraxl. The fleece, or scrim, on the underside of the membrane, or matting. The makers of uncoupling membranes schluter ditra is in the category of uncoupling membranes feel that their products perform better when they are as close to the tile as possible. Bal rapid mat uncoupling matting is designed for use on floors with limited movement and floor coverings, such as tiles, that require zero movement and prevents reflective cracking caused by lateral movement, shrinkage cracks and board joints.
These have been tested and have the highest performance. This may make ditra a better choice if moisture from below is a concern, such as with some outdoor applications or installations over concrete. Schluter ditra and redgard uncoupling mat are two popular brands of. The redgard uncoupling mat covers small cracks in the concrete slab, and eliminates the worry of installing over those expansion joints. Although ceramic and stone tiles can be laid directly over plywood subfloors, its definitely not the best thing one can do. It is made of polyethylene creating a waterproofing layer protecting the substrate. As a result, thinset embeds itself into the fleece layer. In conjunction with tiled coverings, schluterditra 25 forms an uncoupling, waterproofing and vapour pressure equalisation layer. The decoupling feature of ditra is really useful in certain situations, such as a cracked concrete subfloor. Ditra heaterr is a power module that extends power ditra heaterr is a power module that extends power output when used in conjunction with the ditra heatert or ditra heater thermostats. Any cracks in the concrete subfloor must exhibit inplane. An uncoupling membrane can prevent cracks in a slab from affecting tile or grout.
Otherwise known by their brand names as ditra mat or bal rapid mat. Schluter systems ditra 54sq ft orange plastic waterproofing tile membrane at lowes. Also the cracks went through the center of the 12x12 tile. More than ever before, tile assemblies need effective crack isolation to protect the tile, stone and grout. Ditraxl allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywoodosb subfloors on joists spaced at 24 610 mm o. Schluter ditra xl membrane 10 square foot 5 16 underlayment prevent tile cracks.
I would prefer a crack isolation mat like noble ts. Top 5 tips for crack isolation in tile assemblies youtube. When using cbu, the tile is mortared directly to the board, and expansion or shifting of the subfloor is likely to. The type of thinset mortar used to install ditra depends on the substrate material. Can roofing felt or scribing felt be used as an antifracture membrane. If you want to prevent cracks in the concrete from transferring through to your tile floor the best products are a118. Is it advisable to use ditra mat under tile for a concrete floor. What about tiling over small cracks in the concrete.
Uncoupling mats are installed with a thinset mortar between the substrate and mat. Learn if you can install tile over concrete whether it be directly onto the concrete. Ditra isnt sold as a crack suppression mat or a crack isolation mat, although im sure is has some ability in that direction. Concrete and prestressed concrete may build up tension because of deflection.
Effects of improper ditra installation the floor elf. Schluter systems ditra membrane 10 square foot, 18. Does ditra meet the standard for crack isolation or movement of 11618. How uncoupling membranes and mats work ditra stratamat. Megabond from lowes or kerabond are good unmodified thinsets. Ditra and other mats help balance things out in the short haul so that everything stays together over the long haul. It provides uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Through uncoupling the floor covering from the substrate, ditra matting can stop stress cracks being transferred from the substrate to the surface covering.
If your base concrete sub floor is level, and load barring as needed wtf do i need and spend so much time on this mat. This crack will transfer through the screed and up into the tiles above. Schluterditra membranes provide uncoupling through free space, which allows for inplane movement that effectively neutralizes the differential movement stresses between the substrate and the tile, thus eliminating the major cause of cracking and delaminating of the tiled surface. Reliable tile installation on problematic substrates. I could probably do this, and 910 of the time it would work. On substrates with numerous cracks, or under large format tile, f125. Geary has installed heating mats under ditra and finds no problem with. Gypsum concrete underlay over wood or concrete subfloor. If you want to prevent cracks in the concrete from transferring through to. Ditra is an uncoupling membrane designed for ceramic and stone tile installations on floors. Cracked tile over schluter ditra the coverage on the mat was 100% and the coverage on the tile was close to 100%. Ditra and ditraxl provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. The ditra matting has many functions that make it an ideal product for tile installations. Any cracks in the concrete subfloor must exhibit inplane movement.
The ditra matting can also help with waterproofing. Schluter ditra xl membrane 10 square foot 516 underlayment. Redgard uncoupling mat is adhered with polymer modified mortar for a strong. Use of schluter ditra over hydronic radiant heat 05022008, 01. The concrete floor is in great shape no cracks, chips, is level and dry no water problem. Unmodified mortar, as indicated in table above ansi a118. To set ditra over concrete or gypsum, schlutersystems. Walking on it is like concrete and the ditra will prevent cracking of the tiles and grout when the plywood expands and contracts.
It also functions as a waterproofing, vapour pressure equalisation and load. Keith is right the ditra matting is the best product for your application but any crack suppresion membrane would be better than cement board over concrete. Once youve ascertained that the slab is dry and level as possible, your best solution to lay tile over concrete with expansion joints is shown below and linked here. Provided the mat joints and the connections to walls and builtin elements are properly installed, schluter. Schluter ditra tips for wood or concrete subflooors. It can be installed over concrete slabs with 85% relative humidity and. There are cracks ranging from hairline to 14 inch crisscrossing the floor. If your concrete is relatively new under 15 years old, you will need an antifracture membrane such as schluter ditra between your concrete and your tile. For tiling over young concrete less than 28 days old, an uncoupling mat. Ditra 25 is the original, marketleading uncoupling matting, designed to prevent cracks in tile and stone coverings. However, typically concrete will have cracks in it and ditra is not considered a crack isolation membrane. Ditra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, osb and radiant heated floors. Antifracture membrane the tile council of north america. The best mode of thought is to assume that your concrete will crack at.
It aint easy on the knees, but it took a couple of hours to mix, spread, flatten, and do it all over again for the next piece. Im wondering if you can lay tile over a concrete subfloor without. Downstairs over the concrete slab i am covering the entire floor with ditra because all concrete will crack and those cracks will transfer through the grout and tiles. Tile installers usually use cementboard as a tile underlayment over a standard plywood subfloor, but as home flooring pros advises, there are situations for which an uncoupling membrane is a better choice. Schluter ditra underlayment for tile installation 2020. Can be installed on top of concrete, plywood, osb, gypsum, existing vinyl floors, structural planks, subfloors, and radiant heated floors. Tiling on cracked and green screeds schlutersystems. Porcelane tiles on concrete floor, does it need ditra. Tile can contribute thermal mass to a passive solar house, and to christa campbell it would make a more appealing finish floor than concrete. The schluterditra uncoupling membrane is specifically designed. Concrete may be rigid enough, but its also prone to moisture, and it can expand, contract and crack. The integration of ditra s uncoupling, waterproofing, loaddistribution, and vapor. With ditra heat, your floors can combine the beauty of tile with the proven crack free technology of uncoupling, and the comfort of an electric floor warming system. So they want all floor prep and leveling, along with heat systems to be done first and the uncoupling membrane directly under the tile.
In fact, there are some concrete cracks that nothing can survive. I like the idea of adding a membrane over a concrete slab. Can you thinset over concrete that flunked the water. Tile cannot be attached directly to painted concrete, as the thinset will not adhere well to the paint. Id rather see a membrane that is actually rated for that purpose such as nobleseal cis. Ditra over concrete archive ceramic tile advice forums.
Note that the typical failure strain levels for tile and concrete are 0. The insurance policy that will give you total piece of mind is a decoupling membrane. The reason for these products is clearto keep cracks in the. On the underneath side, there is a fleece that is bonded to the ditra mat. This crack will transfer through the screed and up into the tiles above causing your new stonetile floor to adopt the same crack.
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